{sigh} I still get Christians sending me Isaiah 40:22 allllllllllllllllllllllll the time claiming the authors of Scripture (specifically Isaiah) allegedly knew the Earth was a globe. To be fair, I have used the same argument before myself. But that was when I was doing the same thing these people are doing, which is grossly mangling the text to force meanings it does not support. Words mean things and sorry, but circle does NOT mean ball/sphere/globe!
Today, someone sent this video to me:
At the beginning of this episode, Eric Hovind says, “This is the show where we believe the Bible is literally true and scientifically accurate in every single detail.” Oh really? I think not. Not that I don’t think the Bible can be taken literally or believe that it is scientifically inaccurate, but rather I said “I think not” because I don’t believe the hosts are doing either one of the things they hold up as a foundational truth for their show. They are not taking the Bible literally, and their view of “science” is directly opposed to what the Scriptures actually say.
Frankly, this is becoming an epidemic among those who claim to believe the Bible, while simultaneously believing many of the demonstrably false claims of modern “science” (especially as it pertains to Creation vs Evolution). It is most disturbing coming from the likes of Kent and Eric Hovind, David Reeves and others, who do an otherwise amazing job of obliterating the false claims of evolutionary biology and geology, which are in direct opposition to the Biblical narrative – while somehow still maintaining absolute faith in modern cosmology – the very thing that gave birth to the false claims of all the other “ologies” to which they are so articulately opposed in the first place. I’ll deal with this issue a lot more in a future post. For now, I want to address Eric Hovind’s and Paul Taylor’s comments regarding the Biblical support of a flat Earth cosmology.
At 19:50 minutes into the above video, they talk about Isaiah 40:22. Then Paul Taylor says, “What’s interesting though is that the Hebrew word (chug) that is translated as ‘circle’ is actually used in so many places to mean a sphere! It’s a three dimensional circle.” I don’t know what kind of drugs this man must be on, because that statement is patently false – at least according to the Scriptures and I will prove it in a moment. But first, let’s talk about how the Scriptures do have a word used for a spherical object…
As the above graphic shows, Isaiah knew the difference between a ball (sphere) and a circle – and so did the KJV English translators. Speaking of, {a-hem} I must point out that KJV only types need to take note because you are contradicting these “inerrant” 1611 scholars by forcing them to agree with notions of a spherical Earth versus what they actually stated – i.e. that it is a circle. You can’t do that. By your own dogmatic attitude (psychosis) you demand that it is a “perfect translation.” According to you, it has absolutely no errors! Remember, YHWH Himself “preserved His word” (7 times I’m told) through these men and through them alone. I hear your (bogus) arguments alllllllll the time. I get it. OK. So, I’ll hold you to your own standard (are you paying attention Mike Hoggard, Kent Hovind and Steven Anderson?). Therefore, you can NOT twist their 1611 circle into a sphere! They obviously knew the difference between a ball/sphere/globe and a circle and being brutally honest with the text, they chose to translate it as circle.
Now let’s look at the words Isaiah used in Hebrew. I know KJV only types hate that, but believe it or not, the Scriptures didn’t originate in English. The “perfect” 1611 scholars, derived their English from the Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek texts. So, we should be able to do the same. In Isaiah 22:18, we find the first use of the word “dur” (ball) in the Scriptures:
As you can see, the same word shows up 2 more times: once more in Isaiah (29:3), describing someone completely surrounded and again in Ezekiel 24:5, describing something rounded like a pile or a mound set up for burning. The word carries the meaning of something spherical-like in nature (or as in Isaiah 29:3 as something that is all around you).
Whereas, the word in question (“chug”) concerning the Scripture’s description of our world is defined as:
Once again, we have a word that is only used only 3 times in Scripture. But let’s apply the “law of first mention” to see how it was initially introduced to us in the Bible:
Job 22:14 Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.
Is YHWH walking on a sphere or a “circuit” up there? Well, what is a circuit? The dictionary defines it as:
It is a circular path. I see no mention of anything in that, which would demand a definition of a sphere. YHWH is walking on a circular path.
Then we come to Proverbs and Solomon describes how the dry land “appeared” in Genesis 1 by saying:
Proverbs 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:
Set a compass on the face of the deep? What does that mean? This?
Well, no… not exactly. Although it is interesting that a compass is used to draw a circle, which is what Isaiah later describes. In the KJV, we aren’t really getting the full picture. It just says “set a compass,” but in the Hebrew, the word used for “set’ is:
What was inscribed? A “compass?” Well… Solomon used the same word Isaiah did for circle (Isaiah 40:22′ “chug”). Ahhhh… OK. So now we’re getting somewhere. Isaiah’s “circle” was – according to Solomon – inscribed into something! Here are a few other examples of how this word “chaqaq” was used (by Isaiah):
Isaiah 22:16 What hast thou here? and whom hast thou here, that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock?
Isaiah 49:16 Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.
With the above in mind, we find that the New American Standard Bible gives us a clearer rendering of Solomon’s words based on a more accurate representation of the Hebrew word “chaqaq”:
Proverbs 8:27 When He established the heavens, I was there, When He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep,
Or in the King James 2000 Bible we see:
Proverbs 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he drew a circle upon the face of the depth:
How do you inscribe or draw a ball into something? You can’t. No. In each of these cases, we are talking about a circle. According to the Concordance, the Hebrew noun “chug” comes from the verb form of the same word:
Note, that this form is used only once, in the first book of written (canonized) Scripture:
Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.
What does it mean to have “compassed the waters”?
In every single case, the word “chug” is used (both as a noun and a verb) to describe something circular, not spherical!
Watching the above posted video, you will also note that Eric and Paul conveniently ignored the issue of Job’s description of the Earth as a “seal.”
Job 38:14 It {the Earth} is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
Backing up to the previous verse, we see:
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
Where are the “ends of the Earth” to take “hold of” on a ball? This description fits perfectly with a circular Earth, which is pressed as a seal though. This is clarified a bit more in the English Standard Version:
Job 38:14 It is changed like clay under the seal, and its features stand out like a garment.
Get some wax and a seal. Press the seal into the wax and you will get the picture: you end up with a circular, pressed flat seal with raised features on it.
And… LOL! Please don’t even try to use the KJV’s use of “turned” to try and “spin” some notion of Biblical support for the Earth’s rotation/orbit. Please – don’t. I’m begging you. The Bible consistently describes this place as stationary and firmly set on pillars.
“Circling” back around to Isaiah 40:22, the last and final (Biblical) use of the word “chug,” there is simply no way you can force it into meaning a sphere. So, Paul Taylor is lying to you and people like Kent and Eric Hovind, David Reeves and others are choosing to remain willfully ignorant of the literal truth of Scripture, which is in direct contradiction to the “science” (falsely so-called) that they are believing in, and trying to manipulate the Bible into supporting.
Like it or not, believe it or not, accept it or not, your Bible is a flat Earth book! Deal with it however you must, but don’t try and force it to say something it absolutely does not even remotely support. Thus, for the love of all that is Holy, sane and true, please stop sending me Isaiah 40:22 and stop trying to use it to justify your belief in a spinning, heliocentric, globular Earth!
Thanks.
- Rob Skiba
Thanks Rob for the knowledge and deep investigation.
Rob, your blog has just given me a great way to show how YHWH inscribed a circle. All we need is someone who could make a wax seal stamp of the flat earth and stamp it into the wax. It would leave a circle with earth inscribed into the wax.
Rob I agree with you totally on this..the older I get the more it makes sense..don’t be afraid to take it literally.
I have a bookcase full of physics and math books at home, having been a bit of a science geek most of my life. But after a couple of months of looking into the subject of flat earth, those physics books appear like a rickety house of cards with theory piled upon theory in an effort to keep the spinning ball earth alive. What has truly confounded me is the way “men of God” keep trying to make God conform to the theories of men.
Yes indeed I have found the same and I am totally agreed on your last statement.
Thank you for your dedication to finding the truth in God’s word and sharing it with us! God bless you Rob.
http://www.icr.org/article/9532
I live on the North American PLAINS. Why is it that it is NECESSARY for microwave towers to be erected every certain miles apart if, as you claim, the Earth is flat and NOT a sphere?
A sphere is 360 degrees of a circle. Repeat a circle 360 degrees and you have scribed a sphere.
It is obvious that Rob Skiba has not experienced the Hebrew language, culturally, experientially. The Hebrew language presents, not specific definitions, but does give the reader beginning clues from existing entities. The reader must, then, build a cultural meaning from what is given. Earth can mean dirt, planet, people, etc. The context lets us know which is the meaning.
Thanks, Mary. The earth is a sphere. The only ones who disagree are people with an agenda. Some things are so obvious. I am truly baffled by Mr. Skiba in that I don’t know why he opens his mouth.
You do realize that to compass the waters has no bearing on flat earth right? Probably a little more to do with the passage about the shores being a boundary.
I guess you’re still mangling texts. lol
You do realize you are suffering from a SEVERE case of cognitive dissonance right?
Actually, you appear to be.
The definition is the you experience stress and discomfort when you hold two mutually exclusive beliefs. Not sure what you thought it means, other than it is the equivalent of pulling the race card and is used to censor people that disagree with you.
You claim the Bible is a Flat Earth Book.
You claim you research FET, but do not believe in it.
So right there we have the definition of CogDis in a psychologically defined scenario from your own words.
“You claim you research FET, but do not believe in it.”
You quite clearly either lack basic comprehension skills or you are an idiot as I have made it quite plain what I believe. The many videos, articles and blogs I’ve produced clearly show a JOURNEY of discovery. Along that journey, I obviously became more and more convinced. Once again, I will refer you to my conclusion after a year of research: http://www.testingtheglobe.com/conclusions.html
That said, I no longer have the time nor patience for antagonistic lunatics. No further comments from you will be allowed on this site. Bye-bye now.
So much for humility everyone. I am not the judge here but I do know this and you it too when I say it: stomping others opinions or ideas does not make our ideas better or even true. We are not our ideas and being right does not make us better than others or smarter — nor do these acts make us whole or spiritually perfect. We already are whole. We are not our opinions. I like the idea that both sides may be right. I can hold two opposing ideas. It’s facinating. I’m very fortunate and grateful to have people who researched this from two perspectives. I never knew that the Bible said this–think about how long ago these words were said, translated, and what they were trying to convey. Fascinating. I am not saying whose idea is right and wrong (which doesn’t make anyone better than the other) and I again want to say before being vehement in our ideas doesn’t mean we are right or better or smarter. It may mean we have a God sized hole in us and we need for God to fill it. How’s that for starting off with “I’m not here to judge…” It sounds like I did. My best and I’m still working on my not judging.
I’m just days into this and struggling as you have. To boot, I have a scientific bias. While your model is interesting, you need to provide additional detail regarding the circuits of the sun and moon to reconcile day, night, seasons, eclipses, phases of the moon, and tides. And perhaps the circle of the earth is a reference to its orbit…the inscribed circle would then make sense as the earth is confined to move in the resultant trough of the circle. I’m with you on the waters above and below…are the waters above the dark matter scientists cannot reconcile? I’m also with you on the stars as angelic beings.
Staying within the source material and source language and also considering that the learned scholars employed to collate the scripture and translate same obviously knew the difference between circle and sphere/ball.
A Dennis Bratcher posted an article in which he states it is literally translated circle or compass, but he states this…”Yet what is interesting is that even with inspiration, God allowed these ancient ways of looking at the world to stand without correction.”
How can one believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God and yet make that statement!! God’s word is TRUTH!! The more I read God’s word, the more truth I find!!
Rob Chug and Dur. You have become to literal in your understanding of Gods word. If i was looking at a sphere from a distance, it would look like someone had taken a compass and marked out a circle (chug) When i look at the moon chug is what i see with the naked eye.However when i look through a telescope i can see it is a sphere.(Dur) From New Zealand we cannot see Australia even though it is only 1500 miles away, even when we use a powerful telescope, and there is only water between us.
I used GOOGLE Translate to check out the meaning of circle in Hebrew and circle means many things in Here are all the definitions:
מַעְגָל
circle, circuit, ring, rolling pin
חוּג
circle, class, ring, orb, sphere, tropic
עִגוּל
round, circle, orb, disc
סִבּוּב
rotation, rev, whirl, turn, tour, circle
דוּר
circle, rim
מֵסַב
bearing, banquet, armchair, circle, environ, cornice
מַעגִילָה
cylinder, roller, circle, orbit, path, rolling pin
יָצִיעַ
gallery, balcony, circle, porch, mattress
עוּגָה
cake, gateau, circle, cavity, trifle
verbs:
לָחוּג
circle, revolve, make a circle
לְעַגֵל
circle, round, round off, draw a circle, roll
לַעגוֹל
draw a circle, circle
Yeah a lot right?!!
I personally don’t think the Earth is spherical or flat. I think it’s how the Hebrews viewed it:
https://www.google.com/search?site=&source=hp&ei=d2SAV4_nK4ONmQGTlZqYDA&q=firmament&oq=firm&gs_l=mobile-gws-hp.1.0.0l2j0i3j0l2.2855.5102.0.6341.11.8.3.1.1.0.567.2705.2-4j1j2j1.8.0….0…1c.1.64.mobile-gws-hp..2.8.1265.3..41j0i131j0i10.rcznDpCUslQ#imgrc=p80iupfQf0Fs5M:
(copy link to see)
If the Earth was flat then there would be no depth to it which, if you’ve ever seen a hole or dug one you know isn’t true.
If the Earth was spherical then the Biblical description of it would be false and I know for a fact, wait I mean TRUTH that it isn’t.
The Eric Hovind video is missing. Is there another version of it up somewhere? Thanks.
The meaning of the Hebrew “chuwg” depends on its form and the context of the verse. In the masculine form, as in Isaiah 40:22, the word is “sphere.” If it were in the feminine form, it would describe the tool that makes a circle, “compass;” and the only other form would be a verb, which, in this case, it isn’t. If it was a verb, it would be describing an orbit…
The lack of Rob’s mention of the various forms of this word shows his incredible ignorance of the Hebrew language.
There is no form of this word that indicates a flat disk.
LOL! And yet, virtually EVERYONE who translated the Hebrew word (in MULTIPLE languages), chose CIRCLE and NOT sphere, globe, ball. SMH. Talk about incredible ignorance. Get over yourself.