How many FIRST times are there? How many SECOND times? How many LAST times? Modern pre-Trib Rapture “scholarship” appears to be not too far off from an Abbot and Costello routine…
OK. So we have TWO second comings following a resurrection on the LAST DAY, which will be heralded by the sound of the LAST TRUMP, which precedes the FIRST resurrection seven years later, after at least 7 more trumps.
Wait. What?
What?
What are you talking about?
The One coming a second time… twice.
Four times?
NO idiot! It’s a second coming – twice.
A… second coming… twice.
Yes. Which precedes a second first.
First what?
The second – first resurrection.
First resurrection?
Yes. On the LAST DAY, which is heralded by the LAST TRUMP, which precedes 7 years worth of other days and at least 7 more trumps.
Other days of trumps?
Yes. The last days.
Last days of what?
The end.
The end of what?
Are ya deaf man!!?? I’m talking about the beginning of 7 years, when the second coming comes twice. Once on the LAST DAY after the first resurrection, at the sound of the LAST TRUMP, which precedes the 7 years worth of days that will have at least 7 more trumps, leading to the second first resurrection and a second – second coming at the very end of the end… which precedes a thousand years worth of more days!!
WHAT? Who are you talking about??? Donald Trump?
No you moron! The One who’s coming a second time… twice.
Before the second first resurrection.
Yes. On the LAST DAY, with the LAST TRUMP.
The LAST DAY which comes before the 7 years worth of more days,which have at least 7 more trumps?
Yes.
I don’t get it.
What?
Anything you just said.
Well, that’s because you’re a heretic. OK. That’s it. Get out my face! You’re blacklisted and I’m going to do all I can to discredit you now.
Can you see the routine? LOL!
- Rob Skiba
Pretrib is very confusing. You illustrated it well. One needs a telepreacher or a book (other than the Bible) to explain it. But when you read the Bible as a child, Matthew 24, 1 Thess, and other scriptures are not confusing at all. Very simply laid out time lines.
Rob, because you have ditched Dispensations, you have no reference points. It is, certainly, true that ALL SALVATION of believers have their salvation because of the WORK of Christ Jesus during His incarnation and Lamb of God substitutionary sacrifice from Adam onward.
There are TWO TYPES OF RESURRECTIONS. The FIRST RESURRECTION takes place in stages All resurrections fit into one of these two categories:
Jhn 5:29
“And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the RESURRECTION OF LIFE; and they that have done evil, unto the RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION.”
There are pre-Abraham, Isaac, Jacob-Israel believers:
– Adam was NOT of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob / not of Israel / Adam was given Adamic-promises.
– Enoch was NOT OF Abraham, Isaac, Jacob / not of Israel / (Rob, was Enoch given promises?).
– Noah was NOT of Abraham,Isaac, Jacob / not of Israel / Noah was given Noachian-promises.
Abraham begins a people chosen for a specific purpose:
Abraham received Abrahamic-promises.
Isaac given some of the Abrahamic-promises
Jacob / Israel / were given some of the Abrahamic-promises.
This, NATION, ISRAEL, is a NEW ENTITY, designed, specifically, for the incarnation of Messiah, Christ Jesus, in order to fullfil Genesis 3:15 promise, and following.
NATION, ISRAEL, began at Mt. Moriah / The Law given at Mt. Moriah.
Moses WAS of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob / promises and responsibilities and LAW were given to Nation, Israel.
King David WAS of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob / promises given to Israel / + Davidic-promises.
Christ Jesus WAS of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob / “born under the LAW to redeem those who were under the LAW.” He fulfilled The LAW which no Israelite was capable of fulfilling.
John the Baptizer WAS of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob / died under the LAW.
The CHURCH is a NEW ENTITY with a specific purpose.
THE CHURCH OF CHRIST JESUS: began with the 120 awaiting in the upper room, when God-Holy Spirit indwelt them. The Holy Spirit was not GIVEN until the New Testament Day of Pentecost. (Prior to the Holy Spirit’s coming in the New Testament Church, He indwelt individuals, temporarily, and never a whole body of humans, permanently. Therefore, there is a different role for The Church in eternity than for Israel and other Gentile believers not part of either body.)
The Apostles WERE of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob / Members, by God-Holy Spirit of The Church of Christ Jesus.
The Apostle Paul WAS of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob / Member, by God-Holy
John, the Baptizer, WAS not among those 120.
Christ Jesus’ Church is a Holy Spirit indwelt body.
We need to pay attention to the location of God-Holy Spirit in order to understand a Rapture event. Notice where He is in the following:
2Th 2:1-10
Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,
not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.
Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.
And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.
The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,
and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Rob, if God-Holy Spirit is at some point in time on Earth “taken out of the way,” where is the Church of Christ Jesus if God-Holy Spirit is “taken out of the way”?
Once the Church of Christ Jesus is “taken out of the way” THEN the SEVENTH WEEK remaining for Daniel’s prophecy take place where it left off when Christ Jesus was “cut off.”
Also, during those 7 years of Jacob’s Trouble, there are Gentiles who become believers and are martyred.
Rev 6:9-11
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow-servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
The Apostle John was given an outline for Revelation:
Rev 1:19
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
1) the things which you have seen, (Rev 1:1-18 – seeing Christ Jesus)
2) the things which are, (Rev 1:20 – 3:22 – the existing 7 churches of Asia Minor and prophetically, 7 types of churches during the Times of the Gentiles)
3) the things which shall be hereafter. (Rev 4 – (19:1-4 reaction in heaven to event on Earth. 19:11-21 Christ Jesus SECOND COMING.) 20:3; 20:7-15 – Daniel’s 70th week – Great Tribulation)(Rev 21 is post-Millennium – New Heaven and New Earth – New Jerusalem, the Lamb’s wife.)
The LAMB’S WIFE – FIRST RESURRECTION:
In order for the Marriage Supper to take place in Heaven, the Church / the Bride of Christ must be RAPTURED prior to Daniel’s 70th week, because that marriage happens in heaven while the 7 years take place on Earth.
MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB:
Rev 19:5-10
And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigns.
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honor to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow-servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
Rev 21:9
“And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee THE BRIDE, the LAMB’S WIFE.
The “AND,” in the following, indicates two historical groups of FIRST RESURRECTION believers ruling and reigning with Christ Jesus.
Rev 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and THEY sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
AND
I saw THE SOULS OF THEM that were BEHEADED for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and WHICH HAD NOT WORSHIPED THE BEAST, NEITHER HIS IMAGE, NEITHER HAD RECEIVED HIS MARK UPON THEIR FOREHEADS, OR IN THEIR HANDS; and THEY LIVED AND REIGNED WITH CHRIST A THOUSAND YEARS.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the FIRST RESURRECTION.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the FIRST RESURRECTION: on such the SECOND DEATH hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
SECOND DEATH:
Rev 20:11-15
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
There is a FIRST RESURRECTION.
There is a FIRST DEATH.
There is a SECOND DEATH.
The FIRST RESURRECTION has several events unto eternal life existence.
Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the SECOND DEATH.
The Nation, Israel is destined to rule the Earth under King David under King of kings and Lord of lords, Christ Jesus. The Church is destined to rule and reign with Christ Jesus.
https://www.blueletterbible.org/audio_video/popPlayer.cfm?id=9314&rel=mcgee_j_vernon/Rev
Sorry for the length, but this is a very important issue. If you are going to present Truth via Media, you need to have it TRUE.
To sum up my response: You are wrong. Toss your Dispensation glasses and you will finally see how absurd and Biblically unsupported your doctrine is.
As someone who finds this all confusing to begin with is there any thing I can be pointed to foe clarity?