The recent blogs and Facebook posts I’ve done concerning the pre-Trib Rapture has stirred up no shortage of responses (as I knew they would). One person sent me a link to a website, with an article titled, “50 Reasons Why the Rapture Must Happen Before the Tribulation.” I thought, “Oh goodie, goodie! This should be entertaining” and went to check it out. I didn’t have to read very far to see some very gross errors in this person’s thinking. But to his credit, he did start off with a few clarifications, the first of which being:
The Rapture refers to when Christ appears in the clouds and calls His children (those who have trusted in Him) up to heaven.
He is quite correct. I’ll elaborate a bit more though:
The primary verse everyone uses to describe the Rapture is in 1 Thessalonians:
1 Thess. 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The phrase “caught up” comes from the word “harpazó” in Greek [Strong’s 726]. It literally means, to “seize or snatch up, suddenly and decisively.” That is where we get the whole idea of a Rapture. And there is a companion passage of Scripture to this one, again written by Paul that we must also take into consideration.
2 Thess. 2:
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
These two passages of Scripture tell us how and when this “catching up” event takes place. Paul gives us a great deal of detail to know exactly what to expect. Thus, all of the following points must be present in order for us to consider the Rapture to be taking place:
- The Lord’s coming and His gathering together of the Saints happens on the “Day of Christ” (Who we know is “the Lord”).
- The Day of the Lord will not happen until there first come a great falling away (apostasy), and the Anti-Christ man of sin is revealed, exalting himself above all by going into the Temple showing himself to be God.
- When the Rapture (catching up/gathering) happens, it will be heralded by the Lord’s appearing in the clouds (see Matt. 24:29-31 for Yeshua’s own words concerning the timing of when He will be there) accompanied by a shout from the archangel and the sounding of the trumpet of God (refer also to 1 Cor. 15:51-54).
- The dead in Christ will rise first (refer also to: John 6:39-44 and Rev. 20:4-6) then we who are alive and remain will be “caught up” (Raptured) to meet the Lord in the air in bodily form. That means, our physical bodies will literally rise up off the ground and go up into the clouds exactly the way all others in the Bible who were “Raptured” did; Enoch, Elijah and Yeshua all went up in physical form, lifted up from the ground to disappear in the clouds above.
In order for the Rapture to occur, it must happen in the above described way and in no other fashion, for this is how the Holy Spirit revealed the order of events to us in the Scriptures. With this expanded “clarification” in mind, let’s look at what the author of the alleged 50 Reasons Why the Rapture Must Happen Before the Tribulation has to say in his second paragraph:
A key to understanding prophecy (and the Scriptures in general) is this: That which is most important and needful for our knowledge and practice in Scripture will be the most simplest and easiest to understand. As an example, Salvation is one of the simplest concepts in Scripture to grasp (John 3:16, Romans 10:9, Acts 16:31). When we grasp these simple truths and are assured of them, a lot falls in line; what we do not understand must always be weighed with what we do know, and should not overwrite it.
– See more at:
http://informedchristians.com/index.php/Articles/50-reason-why-the-rapture-must-happen-before-the-7-year-tribulation
So, what I get from that is Scripture means what it says, says what it means and does so in an easy to understand way that we should not complicate with our own ideas and opinions. With this in mind, let’s just look at the first few of the “50 Reasons”…
-
Jesus Christ told His disciples that His coming will be as the days of Noah – and then Jesus Christ, Himself, proceeded to describe the chronology of those days by explicitly stating that Noah “entered into the ark” before the flood came (Matthew 24:37-39). “so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.” – Matthew 24:39.
-
To emphasize this point, Jesus Christ repeated this detailed account in Luke 17:26, recording the detail that Noah “entered into the ark” before the flood, and then “the flood came” (Luke 17:26-27). “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.” – Luke 17:30
-
Jesus Christ also told His disciples that His coming will be as the days of Lot – and then Jesus Christ, Himself, proceeded to describe the chronology of that event by explicitly stating that Lot “went out of Sodom” before God’s judgment rained down (Luke 17:28-29). “Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.” – Luke 17:30
-
God reminds us of these individuals again, and tells us that it is God’s nature to deliver believers before divine judgment: Noah, Lot, Rahab, etc. (II Pet. 2:5-9). Note that Peter (who penned the book of Peter) was present when Christ told it to His disciples the first time.
OK. Just looking at these first 4 bullet points, reminding ourselves of the “clarifications” above concerning what a Rapture really is, the first thing we need to ask ourselves is, are these really good examples for a pre-Trib Rapture – or even a Rapture at all? No. They are not!
Did Noah, his family and animals fly up into the sky? No! Noah entered a terrestrial-based place of safety and rode the storm out on the Earth. So while Jesus did indeed compare His coming with the days of Noah, we should do as the author of that article stated at the beginning and stick with the simple to understand, straight reading of the story and not “overwrite it.” We should simply choose to believe Yeshua’s analogy precisely as it was given and not twist it into something it wasn’t even remotely insinuating. Noah is a terrible example to support the pre-Trib view!
In none of the above listed cases did anyone ever fly up into the sky, leaving the Earth behind. Rather, in all of the cited cases, YHWH preserved His people here on Earth, while wiping out the bad guys.
The earliest example of a Rapture-like scenario we have in Scripture is Enoch. But Enoch was Raptured 700 years before the Flood in the time of peace, which followed the 500 year “clash of the Titans” (according to the book of Enoch). So, if anything he’s a prime example of a post-Trib Rapture and a horrible example to be used for any justification of the pre-Trib view. As stated above, Noah remained on the Earth during the worst judgment of YHWH this world has ever seen to date. Lot and his family were preserved on the Earth while YHWH poured out His wrath on Sodom and Gomorrah.The Israelites remained preserved on the Earth in Goshen during YHWH’s wrath being poured out on Egypt. Rehab was protected in the city walls while the rest of Jericho was destroyed all around her. In every example we have of YHWH’s wrath being poured out, we see His people being preserved on the Earth and the bad guys being taken away/wiped out. The End Times will be no different – until the final judgement on the Last Day. At that time, we will indeed be Raptured (as defined by the “clarification” terms above) in accordance with all the Scriptures stated in my recent blog, Why the Pre-Trib Rapture is a False Doctrine.
After a few more examples, the author of the alleged 50 Reasons Why the Rapture Must Happen Before the Tribulation pauses to say:
“Any teaching that ignores, contradicts, or reverses this clearly spelled-out pattern will end up ignoring and contradicting other Scripture as well, “
I cannot agree more. Sadly, he doesn’t realize he is doing just that. The “clearly spelled out pattern” of Scripture is bad guys get wiped out, while the good guys stay on the Earth, preserved here! As we’ve seen, this was true for Noah. This was true for Lot. This was true with Rehab. This was true with the Isrealites during YHWH’s judgment on Egypt. This was true for the 3 Hebrew slaves in the furnace, for Daniel in the lion’s den and on and on and on. The “simple truth” of the matter there are NO examples in Scripture of people being Raptured out prior to nor during times of tribulation. None.
From what I could see of the rest of the “50 Reasons,” it is more than obvious that the author is fully entrenched in Dispensation Theology, wrapped up in its accompanying, flawed eschatology, all of which denies the true identity of the Church, which has indeed led him into the trap of “ignoring and contradicting other Scripture as well.” Thus, I’d have to say pretty much all of his 50 Reasons” fall apart under careful investigation, bearing in mind the “clarifications” for what a Rapture is and who the Church is. For more information on my position concerning the Church (according to the Scriptures), I will leave you with the following links:
- Pick a Stick
- Who is the Church Anyway?
- Leviticus 26, Ezekiel 4 and the Fullness of the Gentiles
- Redeeming the Bride (Part 1)
- Redeeming the Bride (Part 2): Drinking the Cup
- Church in the Wilderness and the Fullness of the Gentiles
- A “Cult” or a Massive Move of YHWH?
You may also benefit from watching the following videos:
And the following notes from my Quest4Truth commentaries on Episodes 17 & 18:
http://www.quest4truth.net/Archived-Shows/quest4truth-episode-17
http://www.quest4truth.net/Archived-Shows/quest4truth-episode-18
- Rob Skiba
WOW. How do you do that? That other article was posted a mere hour before this blog. I am impressed. It would have taken me a week or more. You are diligent sir. God Speed
Rob,
I just finshed your book Archon Invasion and have ur book, Babylon rising ready to go next… I follow you on youtube and facebook. (Not to sound like a creeper) I just want to encourage you, keep up your work. God sees it and in the midst of the nay sayers and those that want your head are people like me who are waking up out of the brainwashing these so-called church leaders are doing to us. People like me are beginning to seek truth and are being led by God to men like you who are brave enough to stand up and say “this isn’t right!” God is with you brother. Thank you for your work and obedience to God!
God bless!,
Matt
Thanks brother. 🙂
Rob,
I am positive that you know that God-Holy Spirit, permanently, indwelt NT believers from the Day of Pentecost 50 days post-Jesus Christ’s resurrection and onward. Biblically, this is how The Church of Jesus Christ is being formed. Right????
The Church of Jesus Christ / The Body of Christ, is a NEW ENTITY resulting from the SHEDDING OF BLOOD by the FINAL Lamb of God at Calvary.
Where The Church of Jesus Christ, indwelt by God-Holy Spirit, GOES, God-Holy Spirit GOES. So what are you going to do with this Scripture?
2Th 2:7
“For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”
2 Th 2
The Man of Lawlessness
“1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,[fn] 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness[fn] is revealed, the son of destruction,[fn] 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6 And YOU KNOW WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only HE WHO NOW RESTRAINS it will do so until HE IS OUT OF THE WAY. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
I ask you, Rob, did Yahweh ever describe Israel-nation as HIS BODY?
The Church of Jesus Christ is a God-Holy Spirit indwelt / redeemed / empowered body of believers. The Church of Jesus Christ has a different role, eternally, from the nation of Israel and the other nations during the Millennial reign.
Mary
Since your Facebook is FULLY FRIENDED, here is an interesting link re: spherical Earth:
https://www.facebook.com/notes/nasa-astronaut-jeff-williams/i-have-been-fascinated-with-this-view/560946947421470
Mary
Rob, again since I am not Friend-ed on your Facebook, I am posting off topic here. You may be interested in this article on plate tectonics. You talked about there NOT being reversals of the poles. The hardened materials each side of the ridges in the oceans indicate these reversals.
http://www.icr.org/article/9290
Mary
Rob, again I wonder if you ever read my posts? I ran across the following:
“Of special interest are the twelve zodiac constellations. This band of stars lies in the plane of the solar system. They appear high in the night sky, roughly along the same path traveled by the sun during the day. During the course of each year the zodiac constellations take turns in appearing: for example, Scorpius in summer, Gemini in winter. Job 38:32 makes reference to the bringing forth of these constellations (or “Mazzaroth” in the King James Version) in their season.”
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c019.html
The “Mazzaroth” is the apparent path of the Sun against the background of the Zodiac constellations and of the planets and Moon.
Mary
Rob, here is an article entitles:
Did Bible writers believe the Earth was flat?
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c015.html
Mary
Rob, here is Brannon Howse and Dr. John Whitcomb answering questions. One of them is about the Church vs Israel.
Brannon Howse: May 10, 2016
“Dr. John Whitcomb joins us for the the 100th episode of Ask Dr. John. Question: Why should I believe the Bible when there are so many other religious books? Question: How do we know that God’s promises to Israel will really be fulfilled, and have not been transferred to the church? Question: Was there sin in heaven when Satan and a third of all angels rebelled against the Lord and were cast out of heaven? Question: How close are we to the end of this church age? Question: Were Jewish believers required to observe the sacrificial ordinances until the destruction of the Temple in AD 70? Question: What will be accomplished by the Lord during the millennium that cannot be done in the eternal state (“the new heavens and new earth)? Question: Did Jesus our LORD die spiritually while on the cross? Question: How will the Antichrist rise to power?”
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/radio/audio/brannon-howse-may-10-2016
Mary
Rob, I would like for you to explain how it is that you consider Psalm 19 to be demonstrating ‘geocentric’ movement.
Psalm 19 is, actually, describing the Earth moving in its orbit AROUND THE SUN. There are SEASONAL CHANGES which are viewed from Earth, BECAUSE the Earth is orbiting the Sun.
How do you explain SEASONS in your ‘geocentric’ thinking?
How do you position the Sun, Moon and Mazzaroth constellations as having the same position in the heavens on a ‘geocentric’ system?
Mary
Rob, I just read the discussion on ‘wandering stars.’ It is correct that the lights in the heavens are all called ‘stars,’ whether they be other ‘suns,’ comets, or planets. As I mentioned, above, all of the planets, orbiting the sun, follow the region of the Mazzaroth / Zodiac in their orbital paths. The planets, therefore, are also designated as ‘wandering stars.’ BUT, as was mentioned the host of heaven can also refer to the created angel beings. The 2Kings passage is, certainly, referring to the worship of Israel regarding the false gods, even the the planets. We know that the planets were given god-names by humans even from the time of the Tower of Babel with their astrology worship conducted at its height. Did you take time to view the Witness of the Stars by Bullinger? The premise of Bullinger’s book is that Yahweh gave each of the stars their names. From the Tower of Babel onward, false mythologies have been handed down regarding these constellations and stars. This is what the 2Kings 23:5 false worship is all about.
Mary
Rob, I thank you for your research on Gen. 6! I agree with your findings. As others have told you, you have opened my eyes / understanding regarding the purpose for The Flood of Noah’s time.
BUT, I cannot agree with your position on a flat Earth. I, also, do not hold to your opinion regarding Science. If you recall the command given to both Adam and Eve, “Have dominion over….” The seeking to “Have dominion over…” all animals and “the Earth” is what TRUTH-SEEKING Science / scientists are engaged with. It seems that you don’t trust Science. Any so-called-science which is in any way tainted by the evolution speculations / assumptions, I, too, reject. The evolution paradigm is Satan’s lie! The Big Bang speculation / assumption is, also, Satan’s lie! Yahweh spoke and it was done! The Earth, according to legitimate OPERATIONAL SCIENCE, is a sphere, orbiting the Sun / heliocentric.
It appears to me that the reason that you are getting yourself into difficulty, biblically, is because you are thinking that you should be taking 100% of The Bible literally / according to the face-value of each and every Hebrew-English word. Hebrew, like all other languages uses many, many figures of speech. If a figure of speech is employed by the recorder / by Yahweh, the exact literal meaning of the Hebrew-English words would result in your holding to error vs TRUTH.
The “pillars of the earth” are the human leaders in the culture.
The “Earth as a footstool” is a figure of speech.
The “Sun as a bridegroom going forth from one end of heaven to the other” is a figure of speech being used to describe the progression of the Sun as it APPEARS to move against the background of the Zodiac constellations. I say “appears to move against the background,” because the Sun is ACTUALLY in front of the constellations, at that particular time of the year, so, THEREFORE, the stars-constellations cannot be seen during the daylight hours or during the night. I was born in June when, if we could see the stars-constellations which were behind the daytime Sun, Gemini would be there. Earth-dwellers are not able to view Gemini in the night sky until the Sun has moved from in front of that constellation. Gemini is a night-time constellation during our Winter months. Those who were born in December, 6 months after June, would see the winter constellations, but the Sun would be hiding the Sagittarius constellation.
Spend some time digesting this diagram: http://i.infopls.com/images/zodiac2.jpg
The constellations of the Zodiac rise in the East at the horizon, move upward to the viewer South and drop lower as they move to set on the Western horizon. It is the tilt of the Earth’s axis which causes the Zodiac constellations to move from the Eastern horizon, climb to a position South, and then lower as the horizon is reached, nightly.
If you were to extend the Earth’s equator horizontally, out into space, and could form a ring around the Earth against the constellations, that would be called the equator extended outward horizontally. See here: http://www.space.com/images/i/000/017/054/original/northern-constellations-sky.jpg?interpolation=lanczos-none&fit=inside|660:*
Notice that there are TWO lines which are drawn on this diagram. The second line is labelled the ECLIPTIC. It is along this Ecliptic region that the Zodiac / Mazzaroth constellations exist. It is, also, within this same band of Mazzaroth constellations that all of the planets orbit and are seen from Earth’s observation. The Moon and the Sun, also, orbit within this Mazzaroth region.
As I mentioned, previously, it is impossible for Earth-observers to view those constellations which are BEHIND the daytime Sun, because of its brilliance.
The Psalm 19 Sun, “runs its course” against the background of the Mazzaroth 12 constellations, YEARLY. There are Summer constellations which are visible in the night-time sky; there are Autumn constellations which are visible in the night-time sky; there are Winter constellations which are visible in the night-time sky; and there are Spring constellations which are visible in the night-time sky.
Are you familiar with the RETROGRADE motions of the outer planets / the planets which are farther out from the Sun than Earth is: Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, etc. Do you know why it is that the planets, mars, Saturn and Jupiter APPEAR to orbit BACKWARD / RETROGRADE sometimes? This retrograde motion is observed with respect to these planets positions with respect to the background stars. The reason for this APPARENT BACKWARD movement of Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, etc., is because the Earth, moving in its orbit around the Sun, approaches the planet, moves with the planet, and then, passes ahead of Mars, Saturn, Jupiter, etc., thus causing the planet to APPEAR to move backward with respect to the background stars. This is evidence for the orbiting of the Earth around the Sun / heliocentric Solar System.
Mary
Rob, here you go regarding evidence for the spherical Earth: https://www.facebook.com/notes/nasa-astronaut-jeff-williams/100000th-orbit-of-earth/571266716389493
Note the curvature of the Earth in some of the photos of the ISS. The ISS is NOT curved while there is the Earth’s curved horizon in the background. You can’t claim that the lens of the camera is curving the Earth’s horizon.
Mary
Interesting. “Answers in Genesis” provided NO ANSWERS FROM GENESIS in this article. Nor did they do much more than prove just how much they actually trust modern science (falsely so-called as Paul would say) and the Nazi/Freemason and thoroughly occult/pagan founded organization called NASA. The majority of their arguments stem from the preconceived notion that NASA is completely trustworthy, thus “we know that…blah, blah, blah…” Oh yeah, and Jim Irwin was a Christian (and also a Freemason btw), so how dare we question the words of other Christians! And Jeff Williams? Yeah, watch the LiveLeaks video of him being allegedly interviewed by people on earth and see the MANY problems with his carefully coached “interview” (especially take care to note the HUGE discrepancies in the delay that SHOULD be present in the interview from both sides). Then note the big, round, long barrel lenses on the cameras with which he used to take all those wonderful “pics of the spherical Earth” as they allegedly fly 17,500 mph over it (in spite of the other videos we have – supposedly – from the ISS showing a totally MOTIONLESS Earth below it). Between this and several other easily disproved misconceptions laid out in this article, it drives me crazy that I simply don’t have the time to give a detailed rebuttal to what is becoming an all too common, exceptionally lame counter-argument from the Christian “science” community – which blatantly ignores what at least the highly credentialed scholars of Logos Bible Software were brave enough to acknowledge concerning what the Bible actually has to say about this topic. Yes, my jury is still out on the shape and nature of our world (mainly due to the 24 hour sun issue in Antarctica), but this article didn’t do much to convince me of the “official story” we’ve supposedly all believed for thousands of years: https://answersingenesis.org/astronomy/earth/is-the-earth-flat/
I don’t trust Jeff Williams and if you can continue to trust him (and NASA) after watching this video, then… as we say in Texas… “Bless your heart.” http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=ece_1462810630&comments=1
We’re off topic here. This is not the post to make comments on FE/NASA, etc.
Rob, you state that you do not hold to ‘Replacement Theology.’ Would you consider, therefore, posting that which you hold to, biblically, regarding the future of ‘the nation of Israel’ vs ‘The Church of Christ Jesus.’ Do you understand ‘The Church’ and “The nation of Israel” to be separate and distinct entities, eternally?
Please give your Scripture support.
Mary
I have given abundant proof for my beliefs in the MANY notes I’ve written on the subject here: https://robschannel.com/ephraim-awakening
As well as in the numerous videos and radio shows I did on the Virtual House Church: http://www.virtualhousechurch.com
Rob, the Mandela Effect video is bogus! Go to Matt 9:17: https://www.blueletterbible.org/nasb/mat/9/17/s_938017
change the translation and see what you find bottles vs wine skins.
Also, it has always been wolf with lamb. Lion is included later.
The presenter in the video hasn’t checked out the evidence.
A lot of what we have tucked away in our CHURCH-related-memories for biblical statements came to us via our ears and not via our eyes / reading our Bibles.
Since you are eliminating some ‘friends,’ could I be “friend-ed” by you?
Mary
Send me a link to your FB page.
Rob, you recall Genesis:
Gen 1:29-30
“Then God said, ‘Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food’; and it was so.”
The animal and human life-forms were ALL designed to consume PLANTS as their food-source.
The following two references are stating, clearly, that the food-sources for animal and humans will, AGAIN, be 100% plant-sourced.
Isa 11:6
“And the wolf will dwell with the lamb,
And the leopard will lie down with the young goat,
And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little boy will lead them.”
Isa 65:25
“The wolf and the lamb will graze together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox; and dust will be the serpent’s food. They will do no evil or harm in all My holy mountain,’ says the LORD.”
Mary
What does this have to do with the Rapture?
Rob, this is how Christ Jesus will return to Earth post-Tribulation, when His feet will touch upon The Mount of Olives.
2Th 1:6-7
“For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,”
Rob, here you have Christians being encouraged by Paul re: their glory in Christ Jesus.
2Th 1:10-12
“when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed. To this end also we pray for you always, that our God will count you worthy of your calling, and fulfill every desire for goodness and the work of faith with power, so that the name of our Lord Jesus will be glorified in you, and you in Him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.”
Rob, following you have what takes place once God-Holy Spirit and The Church have left the Earth.
2Th 2:1-14
“Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and OUR GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that THE DAY OF THE LORD. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the APOSTASY comes first, and the man of lawlessness is REVEALED, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness. But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.”
Rob, I would like to know / understand what the purpose is for your Torah life-style / studies. The following Scripture speaks of “Mount Zion” in heaven, a “heavenly Jerusalem,” “the assembly of the firstborn,” “who are enrolled in heaven,” “to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,” “and to Jesus,” “the mediator of a NEW COVENANT.” Why are you seeking to live under “the OLD COVENANT”?
Heb 12:22-24
“But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.”
Mary
Once again… you tire me out. Your arguments are circular and unfounded nonsense. I’ve already addressed much of this. Your Dispensation/pre-Trib doctrine is false and full of more errors than I have the time and energy to deal with in a marathon of back and forth comments. Suffice it to say, we’re going to have to agree to firmly disagree. Blessings.
Rob, Yahweh relates to OT Israel as “wife.” Christ Jesus relates to NT Church as “bride.” These are two different entities! Following is today’s devotional from Dr. David Jerimiah:
“Reality and Relation
And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, so shall your God rejoice over you.
Isaiah 62:5b
Most Christians understand the idea that God created man in His image (Genesis 1:26-27). Every member of humankind was to bear the image of God throughout the earth to represent God’s dominion and authority over His creation. We might say that individuals bearing the image of God are to represent the reality of God in their character and behavior.
But there is another dimension to God that is represented by groups of individuals: the relational part of God. Starting in the Garden of Eden (Genesis 2:24), God used marriage as a metaphor for how He relates to those whom He loves. Beginning with Israel, God has related to His people as a bridegroom relates to his bride (Isaiah 54:6-8; 62:5; Hosea 2:19-20). Then, in the New Testament, we find Paul using marriage to illustrate the relationship between Christ and His Church (and vice versa) (Ephesians 5:22-33). As individuals, we bear witness to the reality of God, and as couples we illustrate the relational dimension of God. Both are powerful witnesses to a watching world.
Couples should consider: What do people see of God and His love when they see our marriage?
A Single Thought: May our lives reflect God’s love—it is the portrait of God’s image to others.”
It was not POSSIBLE for OT believers or Israel to live out membership in Israel, or for NT non-believers to live out the relationship of Christ Jesus with His Body / Bride / members of The Church.
God-Holy Spirit indwelling NT believers makes the difference!
Mary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy3nOGOHne4
https://www.facebook.com/mary.wilson.58
There is no option to friend you when I went to your page.
Rob, I, too, view Chuck Missler’s Youtube videos!
I noticed, regarding The Rapture, a comment re: Enoch’s translation
made in the second portion of the following video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYiuM43u0Q4
Enoch, a picture of The Church in the New Testament.
Mary
Enoch is a HORRRRRRIIIBBBBLLLEEE “picture of the Church” in a pre-Trib Rapture context. The man was raptured out 700 YEARS before the Flood for crying out loud! And that only AFTER a significant time of “tribulation” (i.e. the 500 year Clash of the Titans war of the Nephilim). The only similarity Enoch has with a rapture is he was taken. That’s it. As for the timing of his taking, he is a MUCH better example of a post-Trib Rapture. Seven hundred years later, we finally see the judgment of YHWH on the world, and even in that scenario, the good guys STAYED ON EARTH in a place of safety. So, Noah (and I would say Lot also) are both terrible examples as well. Love Chuck, but this explanation is more than “wanting” in my view.
Here is Chuck Missler on the Rapture:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybF6lM_Hq4U
Mary